Tilapia Temperature Sensitivity??

[Wendy in BC]

Ok Kellen, your wish is my command (well in terms of threads). Any input you might have in terms of temp tollerance and tilapia is appreciated. I keep my fish at 25C which presents DO issues.

Wendy

[kellenw]

Ok Kellen, your wish is my command (well in terms of threads). Any input you might have in terms of temp tollerance and tilapia is appreciated. I keep my fish at 25C which presents DO issues.

Wendy

25C (77F) would work well for tilapia once they get to 2 inches in length. When smaller, you should keep them at 80-84F if you can. They'll grow faster and have lower mortality. You mentioned that you had some DO issues at 25C, but I bet they are adequate for tilapia. Tilapia tolerate pretty low DO levels in comparison to most of our North American native fishes.

70F (~21C) is about the lowest temperature you can keep tilapia at and expect appreciable growth.

This goes for all tilapia strains really. Blues can tolerate the lowest temps typically (depends on the strain of Blues though), down to 45F for brief periods.

Niles typically tolerate down to about 54F for brief periods, but some strains, like the White Brook White Nile, can tolerate down to 52F for brief periods.

Mozambiques vary a great deal based on the strain. Some can only tolerate temps down to about 70F, while others can tolerate as low as 55F or so.

Tilapia are warm water fish that come from tropical and sub tropical areas, and as such, they do best in 70-88F, with 77-84F typically being the sweet spot for fastest growth. HOWEVER, high levels of DO will also encourage faster growth and can offset lower temps if still above 70F.


-Pete (hehehehehe)

[Wendy in BC]

Pete aKA Kellen, your the tilapia guy!!! Thanks so much for the info

[kellenw]

No problem Wendy. Happy to help!

[Wendy in BC]

it's 10:30 pm in western canada and bed time for me. Thanks so much Kellen for all your help. I'll have more questions tomorrow!!

[azpaul]

25C (77F) would work well for tilapia once they get to 2 inches in length. When smaller, you should keep them at 80-84F if you can. They'll grow faster and have lower mortality. You mentioned that you had some DO issues at 25C, but I bet they are adequate for tilapia. Tilapia tolerate pretty low DO levels in comparison to most of our North American native fishes.

70F (~21C) is about the lowest temperature you can keep tilapia at and expect appreciable growth.

This goes for all tilapia strains really. Blues can tolerate the lowest temps typically (depends on the strain of Blues though), down to 45F for brief periods.

Niles typically tolerate down to about 54F for brief periods, but some strains, like the White Brook White Nile, can tolerate down to 52F for brief periods.

Mozambiques vary a great deal based on the strain. Some can only tolerate temps down to about 70F, while others can tolerate as low as 55F or so.

Tilapia are warm water fish that come from tropical and sub tropical areas, and as such, they do best in 70-88F, with 77-84F typically being the sweet spot for fastest growth. HOWEVER, high levels of DO will also encourage faster growth and can offset lower temps if still above 70F.


-Pete (hehehehehe)

Hey Pete,
I am looking at using tilapia as well here in Arizona. I have a question with the water temps staying at 70-84 degrees. Some one else might be able to pipe in as well, but with water temps that high, doesn't it affect the growth of certain plants like lettuce?

The reason I ask is I thought I read an old post of Murray's that stated he gave up on lettuce at one point when the water temps reached the 70's in FH? Now this was in the summer if I recall correctly. Can the type of fish impair the types of food you want to grow due to their water temp requirements?

Thanks Pete! (I had to jump on that bandwagon too :p)

[Murray]

Can the type of fish impair the types of food you want to grow due to their water temp requirements?

Remember that running an AP system is a balancing act between the needs of the fish and the needs of the veggies. It most cases it works out.

It is always difficult to grow good lettuce during the hotter months no mater what farming method you employ.
Lettuce do best with a root zone temp of 22 deg C or lower, but that does not mean the lettuce all die at 23 degrees. The efficiency begins to drop off as the temp rises.

So it is with the fish. If you want to concentrate on maximum fish production and you engineer your system to suit, then the veggie production in some areas may not be as good.

Really, with AP, the veggies are the main crop and the ones that will return the most. It is all a matter of balance and compromise.

I am sure that KellenW would be able to advise on the best variant of Tilapia for your particular needs.

[kellenw]

Hi Paul,

Murray really nailed it on the head with his reply.

I'll add that with "most" intensive lettuce raft production systems, fish production is often a very secondary concern, and is seen more as a "bonus" harvest item. If you're not racing to harvest tilapia in 5 or 6 months and are more comfortable with an 8-9 month harvest schedule, they should work quite well and in relatively high densities at lower temperatures, even in a raft system. However, if fish production is still an important concern, and you want to maintain lower temps for lettuce (and assuming you can reasonably do so throughout the hot months), yellow perch, trout or hybrid striped bass are likely a better choice of fish, depending on location. In AZ I don't think you can reasonably expect to be growing high quality lettuce in the hot months anyway, unless you are utilizing evaporative coolers or something similar (please correct me if I'm off on that), and coldwater, as well as some cool water fish, are out of the question during the hot months. Alternatively, in a growbed based system with something like tomatoes as a primary crop, tilapia are often a fantastic choice. Also, since you can grow tilapia in far higher densities than most native North American fish, even a slightly slowed growth rate due to lower than ideal temps may not be that big of a deal when comparing to the lower stocking densities one must maintain with typical native coolwater fish. Common Carp would be a definite exception to that statement, but they are technically an "established" fish from Asia, not a native. Carp aren't a very desirable food fish in the states though.

Keep in mind, min/max air temps as well as average daily air temps will have as much, and perhaps more, impact on the majority of plants in an AP system (to a lesser degree in typical raft systems, to a greater degree in typical growbed based systems).

The suitability of one tilapia strain vs another with regard to temperature is largely marketing hype, and some of these basement operations that have popped up recently are either ignorant to the fact or are just intentionally misleading people. All of the popular production strains of tilapia have very close temperature requirements for ideal growth, reasonable growth and disease resistance (within about 4F degrees). A few, like the Blue Tilapia, can withstand slightly lower temperatures than some of the others for brief periods, but expecting, for instance, to be able to winter over Blue Tilapia in 45F degree water is NOT going to work. They'll die from extended exposure to temps that low, regardless of what a "seller" might say. Now, a day or two, possibly even a week... they should make it through... at least some of them. Don't expect any more than that though. Now, if you control your water temperature within a couple of degrees F throughout the entire growth cycle, there ARE selections that are better suited than others, depending on your chosen temperature range, but most home growers do not have the desire or ability to manage temps that tightly. For most people, it's best to select a fast growing strain or a particular color strain you like. Other than that, they're all about the same for the "Average Joe".

Hope that makes some kind of sense. I just looked down at the clock, and it's 2:42AM my time. Yikes! I need to get to bed! :) I have a 9AM meeting tomorrow!

Doh! :eek:

[azpaul]

Hi Paul,

Murray really nailed it on the head with his reply.

In AZ I don't think you can reasonably expect to be growing high quality lettuce in the hot months anyway, unless you are utilizing evaporative coolers or something similar (please correct me if I'm off on that), and coldwater, as well as some cool water fish, are out of the question during the hot months.

As usual, I feel the quality of the information here is top notch. Not having raised fish other than a small tank and that was the wife and kids, I am not that familiar yet with all the aspects of keeping them safe. And again, just learning about the plants and veggies, my wife is the gardener and this will all be for her. I am the techie of the whole thing. It is fascinating to see all of this come together.

You are correct on that. Our leafy types of plants usually die off in the hot months. But Yuma AZ is one of the top producers of Lettuce. Not sure if the harvest all year, I can't imagine.

Depending on the total power draw for the green house, there are some components that I might utilize solar. I plan on trying solar heating for the winter and evoprative cooling for summer until the monsoons come in about mid July. Humidity tends to get too high. I may consider for the month of July, August and Part of September a regular 220V AC. I have one left over from when we built our house but that may be too cost prohibitive.


Alternatively, in a growbed based system with something like tomatoes as a primary crop, tilapia are often a fantastic choice. Also, since you can grow tilapia in far higher densities than most native North American fish, even a slightly slowed growth rate due to lower than ideal temps may not be that big of a deal when comparing to the lower stocking densities one must maintain with typical native coolwater fish.

One of the reasons I chose the Tilapia as the fish is because of our warmer temperatures. Not sure about the winter months yet, we just had some freezes this week. 22 degrees fh on the thermometer two days ago and 60's during the day. Sun is warm though.


Keep in mind, min/max air temps as well as average daily air temps will have as much, and perhaps more, impact on the majority of plants in an AP system (to a lesser degree in typical raft systems, to a greater degree in typical growbed based systems).

This is where the trial and error will come in to play and we will see which plants do what during a specific time of year.


The suitability of one tilapia strain vs another with regard to temperature is largely marketing hype, and some of these basement operations that have popped up recently are either ignorant to the fact or are just intentionally misleading people. All of the popular production strains of tilapia have very close temperature requirements for ideal growth, reasonable growth and disease resistance (within about 4F degrees).
I have seen a couple basement operations pop up using pools to grow the tilapia in a warehouse scenario and then say they are selling them to the market. Problem is that the pools they use from Walmart leaches chemicals that help slow the growth of algae. Found that information while researching leaching before I decided to build my tank out of wood and a liner. So how safe are those fish? Hard to say for sure.


A few, like the Blue Tilapia, can withstand slightly lower temperatures than some of the others for brief periods, but expecting, for instance, to be able to winter over Blue Tilapia in 45F degree water is NOT going to work. They'll die from extended exposure to temps that low, regardless of what a "seller" might say. Now, a day or two, possibly even a week... they should make it through... at least some of them. Don't expect any more than that though. Now, if you control your water temperature within a couple of degrees F throughout the entire growth cycle, there ARE selections that are better suited than others, depending on your chosen temperature range, but most home growers do not have the desire or ability to manage temps that tightly. For most people, it's best to select a fast growing strain or a particular color strain you like. Other than that, they're all about the same for the "Average Joe".

Well I am all about as simple as I can get. So, I could consider myself here the average Joe. But, I think it may be a plausible solution to regulate the temps down the road. One step at a time. I don't think I need to look at the Blue Tilapia, the more common will probably do just fine.


Hope that makes some kind of sense. I just looked down at the clock, and it's 2:42AM my time. Yikes! I need to get to bed! :) I have a 9AM meeting tomorrow!

Doh! :eek:


Sure does... As Murray stated it is all about balance. We just need to learn how to balance everything.

When I read that about the temps, I just got this notion that the lettuce would suffer with higher temp waters. I know from my wife's experience that lettuce, kale, tomatoes and the like die off in the summer here because the temps are too hot.

We are not a big fish eating family so the harvesting is not that big a concern, however, if we get the hang of things who knows where we will go with it. Our first goal is self sustainability! Even more so now that our out of touch, new world order government just passed that Food Modernization Act, S510. I tried finding the bill in it's entirety but have been unsuccessful. Fear Mongers speak about criminalization of seed harvesting and other off the wall notions. Not good if true and I prefer to read that myself.

So, all this information was very good. I appreciate you taking the time and going into such good detail. I am at least a couple weeks to maybe a month before I look at fish. I am sure I will have more questions but this is good reading. I think once we stagger the crops then it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I am only going to have 2 Floating Rafts and 4 gravel beds. They are all 8 feet long. The rafts are going to be 24" deep x 2.5 feet wide and the gravel beds about 14 inches deep. The majority of the beds will be gravel anyways.

Thanks

[kellenw]

Well I am all about as simple as I can get. So, I could consider myself here the average Joe. But, I think it may be a plausible solution to regulate the temps down the road. One step at a time. I don't think I need to look at the Blue Tilapia, the more common will probably do just fine.




The Nile Tilapia (Oreochromis niloticus) is a superior fish in nearly every way to Blue Tilapia (Oreochromis Aureus). Again, some marketing hype has caused some confusion here for new aquaculturists and aquapons. We carry both the Nile and the Blue, so we have no reason to try and "promote" one over the other. We're concerned more about hard facts for growers, so they can reliably produce high quality fish.