A/Ponics gets a mention.......

[doug e]

A/p got a mention on "landline" y/day...........in a story about commercial rabbit farming at Kyogle.......it appears that the crux to making a $$$ in rabbits is the cost of feed (sounds familiar!!!). The grower was producing lettuce in a raft system to feed the bunnies.
cheers Doug

[DALE]

Hi Doug, I did see that story it was interesting to see, but they also mention straight after the aquaponics part that they had an outbreak of e-coli from the feed, I persume it was the lettuce that was being fed from what the pictures showed.
good that AP still was mentioned.

By the way that AP system they showed wasn't a raft system! It was rows of NFT

[Murray]

Yes, I saw that program. Good that AP got a mention. The feed issue was not related to the lettuce from AP, but another feed source. Anyway, it is always good that AP gets a mention.
The rabbits thing was interesting, not a very profitable business it would appear. The particular farmer had spent 200 K on sheds and equipment. Feed cost was one of the inputs that was rising in cost and threatened the viability of the rabbit business. AP greens may well make his rabbit business a bit more profitable. The farmer was doing the AI thing every day, lot of work keeping rabbits it would appear.
That is what I got out of it anyway.

[DALE]

Murray how did u get outa the video that the ap lettuce wasnt the ecoli soure?

didnt mention either way so is cant be ruled out that ap caused it!!!!!!!!!!

[Murray]

You could well be right Dale, but I got the clear impression that it was some other food source they were talking about.
Has it been put up on the web yet..need to take another look at it...you may be right Dale.

[fishfood]

try here http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/ ... 736433.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2008/s2736433.htm)

[Tsaphah]

Watched it twice, difficult to say, and it seems they had different farmers too, not just one farm. Wonder what he does with the fish (beside the obvious and eat them!)?

[RupertofOZ]

Given fish are cold blooded Dale... and can't host/transmit e-coli... you can't really blame the AP system...

If the lettuce was contaminated... it wasn't directly the fault of the lettuce persay... because similarly plants don't generate e-coli...

The only way for the lettuce feed to have been contaminated with e-coli.... would have been due to poor human hygene... or contamination by rodent (or other animal) faeces or urine...

[RupertofOZ]

Having watched the video...like Murray... I suspect it was other feed being fed to the rabbits that was contaminated..

[Murray]

I have had another look at it and I still have the impression that it was another food source that was contaminated. In fact, second time round one could get the impression that the AP grown lettuce are part of the solution to their rabbit food problem. Good point re the e-coli Rup, I had not thought of that aspect.

Take note, the AP farmer only brings a small bag of lettuce leaves to the rabbit farmer, I would say it makes better business to sell the fresh organically grown lettuce at 1.50 or 2.00 each at a Sunday market,or wherever rather than feed them to rabbits.

[DALE]

Yeah after watching it again it doesnt seem to be the lettuce,

Wonder what would be in the pellets that they feed them cos the bloke in the adelaide farm at the start had 3 big silos attached to his operation. Or could it be grain straight from the farm! But one wouldn't think grain would cause ecoli either. So they must feed them pellets with all sorts of stuff in the pellet.

[RupertofOZ]

Most likely rodent bourne contamination I'd suggest... whether grain or pellet...

[DaveOponic]

We have a pet rabbit. It eats anything and everything. I would never waste lettuce on the rabbit. We feed it Kangkong mainly, which is cheap in the vege stalls here and grows like a noxious weeds anywhere there is water. That's what he should be growing. Much easier to grow than lettuce. We also feed the bunny sweet potato leaves Omy big pipe gwo bed is infested with sweet potato which cascades over the sides and heads down the open drain (houses here don't have gutters but big wide concrete drains to chjannel away the torrential monsoon rains) It also eats basil (also out of control and just about any other green leaf)

The bunny droppings go back in the compost tumbler or on the paw paw tree.

Dave

[DALE]

Given fish are cold blooded Dale... and can't host/transmit e-coli... you can't really blame the AP system...

If the lettuce was contaminated... it wasn't directly the fault of the lettuce persay... because similarly plants don't generate e-coli...

The only way for the lettuce feed to have been contaminated with e-coli.... would have been due to poor human hygene... or contamination by rodent (or other animal) faeces or urine...John
http://www.freshbynature.com.au
RupertofOZ

rupe here is an interesting article you should read


According to research published in a recent journal of Applied and Environmental Microbiology, exposure to light and possibly photosynthesis itself could be helping disease-causing bacteria to be internalised by lettuce leaves, making them impervious to washing.

Salmonella enterica is a common cause of food-borne gastroenteritis, with an estimated number of one to three million human cases per year in the United States. Fresh produce is increasingly being implicated as a source of infection. One of the largest food-borne outbreaks in recent history - the Salmonella St. Paul outbreak in 2008, which affected over 1,400 people - was associated with tomatoes and jalapeno peppers.

Earlier studies of food-borne pathogens on produce found that the bacteria do not only attach to the surface of fresh produce but also find their way below the surface of the skin through pores called stomata where they can hide from and resist washing and food sanitisers.

Researchers from the Agricultural Research Organization at the Volcani Center in Israel and Tel-Aviv University examined the role that light and photosynthesis might play on the ability of salmonella bacteria to infiltrate lettuce leaves via stomata. Sterile iceberg lettuce leaves were exposed to bacteria either in the light, in the dark, or in the dark after 30 minutes of exposure to light. Incubation in the light or pre-exposure to light resulted in aggregation of bacteria around open stomata and invasion into the inner leaf tissue. In contrast, incubation in the dark resulted in a scattered attachment pattern and very little internalisation.

Researchers believe that the increased propensity for internalisation in the light may be due to several factors. First, in the absence of light plants enter a period of dormancy, where stomata are closed and no photosynthesis takes place. In the light, the stomata are open. Additional findings also suggest that the bacteria are attracted to the open stomata by the nutrients produced during photosynthesis, which are not present in the dark.

"The elucidation of the mechanism by which salmonella invades intact leaves has important implications for both pre- and postharvest handling of lettuce and probably other leafy vegetables. The capacity to inhibit internalisation should limit bacterial colonisation to the phylloplane and consequently might enhance the effectiveness of surface sanitisers," the researchers said.

[RupertofOZ]

Interesting article Dale... but the key statement is...


Sterile iceberg lettuce leaves were exposed to bacteria...

As stated... salmonella outbreaks have occurred... and been traced to infection of plant matter....

But .... by bacteria introduced to the plant material .... by humans .... usually by poor hygene...

The plants themselves can't produce e-coli, or salmonella.... sure they might be able to "host"... even as the study suggests... assimilate bacteria into the internal structuresc of the plant...

But it's still the case... and in light of the study, even more so.... for scrupulous personal hygene when handling foodstuffs...

So that they're not introduced.... ;)

[nick]

yeah have to agree with rupe,
Ecoli and salmonella from vegies are not a plant or fish based organism, they are introduced by poor hygiene from people.
Cheers, Nick

[ian]

Hi Guys,
If you wish to have rabbits for food legalised in QLD,
Look at this Petition for e-signing..
http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/E ... etNum=1271 (http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_qld/CurrentEPetition.aspx?PetNum=1271)

Cheers IanK :mrgreen:

[ian]

Here's the reply to the petition
http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/EPetitions_qld/Responses/1271-09.pdf

Queensland to the forefront of the rear gaurd again!!!

Cheers IanK :mad:

[Murray]

Nothing changes Ian.
Possibly did not even read the petition. More than likely, some public servant typed up the letter for the Minister and he signed it along with a couple of hundred other letters.

[Murray]

Here is an article written by Annette McFarlane.
She writes for the Courier Mail and contributes to many and various gardening magazines and regularly hosts ABC radio gardening shows.

See article here (http://www.annettemcfarlane.com/feature.htm)

The web site also has useful information about planting times and lists of unusual food and non food plants.

[davidstcldfl]

That was a nice article on AP. That was nice of her, to give you a great plug Murray.

[Murray]

And she gave backyardaquaponics a plug as well.

It is all good. The fact that more and more gardening "gurus" are taking note of AP and seeing it as legitimate part of a regular garden is very good for AP.
Over the last 12 months in particular we have seen this shift and acceptance taking place.
Costa’s Garden Odyssey soon to air on SBS includes one of our kits in a Sydney backyard garden build. Costa sees it as a good thing for any keen veggie gardener to have.
All the “Garden Gurus” we have spoken to or dealt with , once they understand how it works, immediately become very excited by the possibilities AP offers to the back yard gardener.

[Castaway]

Here's a story in today's Melbourne Age about "Vertical Farming" growing all sorts of food in those high rise city towers. At first glance it looks idyllic and promises a rosy future but when you read passages about growing pigs in city skyscrapers and feeding their excrement to fish grown in an aquaponics system you start wondering if the journalists writing this sort of tosh have scratched any deeper than their fervent imaginations...


In Pig City waste from the pigs would be processed and fed to tilapia (a hardy edible fresh water fish already farmed in large numbers in South-East Asia) in a massive aquaponics system that uses water rich in fish excrement to fertilise plants. The plants could then be used to feed the pigs.


The Future is Up Article (http://www.theage.com.au/news/entertainment/epicure/the-future-is-up/2010/03/15/1268501434892.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2)

Imagine the separate air conditioning systems they would have to set up to keep the smell of pig sh#t away from the merchant bankers working in the floor above!
:(

[Tsaphah]

Imagine the separate air conditioning systems they would have to set up to keep the smell of merchant bankers sh#t away from the pigs!!

Do they ever wonder what it would cost to pump water up those heights, or the mass of FT's filled with water, and think it through in practical terms?
I think the only place they scratch is between their legs!

[Murray]

More on vertical farming.
Here is a high rise with a difference.


http://npcconvergence.net/wp-content/uploads/IMG-farmscraper-002a.jpg

[Wendy in BC]

That looks amazing Murray, I've read a bit about verticle farming. Do you have a link associated with that plan?

Wendy

[Murray]

Hi Wendy,
Here is the link.
http://npcconvergence.net/2010/07/02/future-food/

The article is a bit odd in places, but it is another point of view.

I don't see how the building will get sun to all sides, maybe it rotates or something. Some of these ideas are thought up by the most impractical people.

[ian]

Pity it's just a couple of Computer Generated Images!
Good idea I suppose, pretty hard to achieve and maintain.
I feel it's just more band wagon jumpers?

Cheers IanK :rolleyes:

[TheNative]

Vertical farming is a great idea, but putting it into practice is going to be difficult. They should start small, only a few stories high and work upwards as the technology proves itself. In regards to the light issue, I think the building will need to be flat. Won't be the first flat building.