Biomass Heating in Aquaponics

[frederickjh]

Hi all!

I am living in Switzerland now and am in the process of building my first aquaponics system. We are approaching spring up here but even so I have been look into how it might be possible to heat a year round aquaponics system.

One idea that looks promising is biomass heating. The basic idea is put a compost heap in an insulated container to trap the heat, provide ideal conditions for breakdown and harvest the heat with water pipes in the same container.

Here are some links:

The build it solar website has a list of three types of biomass heaters (http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/MbSoft.htm).

These all come from the same anther site, however he give a good brief description.

My favorite build candidate right now for heating a year round aquaponics system is the the rotating drum. (http://mb-soft.com/public3/globalzl.html)

Anyone tried this? Anyone got any comments as to whether this would work and how you might use this with an aquaponics system? I guess my biggest question is regulation of system temps with a system like this.

Greetings,

Frederick

[Castaway]

Hi Frederick,
Welcome to the forum. What sort of fish do you have access to in Switzerland?
Before looking at Biomass heating it seems to me to first look for a fish that enjoys colder water temperatures like trout for example and experiment with growing cooler temp plants in your greenhouse would be a more efficient way to adapt your aquaponics system to local conditions first than attempting to heat your system as the more fail points you add into the system at the beginning - the more things can (and do) go wrong. I think once you have a basic system that works well in your environment - then you are free to experiment and tinker with it. Try and keep it all simple at the start. especially if it's your first AP system.

[Julia]

Hi Frederickjh,

Thanks very much for the links to the information on biomass heating. Very interesting!

I'm thinking of trying a version of it to keep my silver perch at bit warmer during the winter. My AP system is a CHOP system, and the water from the grow beds gravity feeds back to a sump, which is a cast iron bathtub. I'm thinking that if a compost bed was constructed that enclosed the sump on all four sides, that the water would stay much warmer through the winter. I guess it would have to be closely monitored, in case it got out of hand.

What do you think?

[dufflight]

I like the idea of an inside tank. Of a night you divert the flow away from the gb's and use a bio filter to keep the fish going over night.

[Julia]

Yes, an inside tank is the best idea, if you've got room. Otherwise, it seems like there's too much that can go wrong, if the system gets too complicated. I'd just like to try a simple heater (a compost bin) touching the sides of the sump, and see how it affects the water temperature . . .

[Murray]

This subject of heating etc is als being discussed here (http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=580&page=4)
This thread is more specific about biomass heating

[dufflight]

Heating with compost is okay but its more the amount of material you have to find. I have to run around trying to find enough plant matter and manure to get compost to a critical mass that heats up. Then there is trying to keep it going. A tumble compost bin can make compost in 10ish days. Then you have to refill it. I have a lot of concrete around the pool and it works well to catch the heat. Even some houses that have a slab next to it will notice the heat transfer to the building.

[Julia]

Yes, Duff, that's a good point. Heating via compost may be more labour-intensive than I realise. A little enclosure around the bathtub may not be enough to reach a critical mass, especially during the winter. Finding the manure on a regular basis may be another problem. It wouldn't be difficult to try though, so I probably will. Anything else is a tad too complicated. The sump and the tanks are pretty well insulated, so the silvers won't die over winter, but they just won't grow much, which isn't the end of the world.

[Murray]

Hi Julia, yes it is not all that easy. I have approached a mowing contractor to bring all his lawn clippings to my place every day instead of taking them to the tip.
He wants to be paid for them even though he has to pay to dump them at the tip.
I am going to keep trying on that one.
The source of the green matter is important.

[Domonix]

try tree loppers murray sometimes they have a hard time trying to get rid of mulch

[fishfood]

Hi Julia, yes it is not all that easy. I have approached a mowing contractor to bring all his lawn clippings to my place every day instead of taking them to the tip.
He wants to be paid for them even though he has to pay to dump them at the tip.
I am going to keep trying on that one.
The source of the green matter is important.
That would be right as soon as they think somebody else is going to use or make money out of anything they see dollar signs
i have seen things at the tip because they have to pay they destroy it as they dump it

[Tsaphah]

Julia, Murray, may be time to get an alpaca, then you will have fresh manure on a regular basis!

[Julia]

I'd love a little family of Alpacas - such beautiful creatures! I'd probably have a better chance of getting a few chooks, but not much.

Usually the neighbour's cattle leave enough manure to get by with along the fence line, but haven't lately with all this grass around since the rain. There don't seem to be any diary farms in the area either. But I do have a lot of comfrey. Perhaps if I make a good brew of that and add it to clippings, etc, in my compost heater, it will be enough to start the reaction. . .

[Julia]

Here are some photos of a biomass heater (compost bin), built around the AP sump (a cast iron bathtub), which we finished yesterday. The first layer inside is wood chips, then a layer of comfrey, a layer of sugar cane mulch, a layer of muck out of the compost bin and some old manure, another layer of comfrey, another layer of sugar cane mulch, some weeds, and then finished off with a layer of straw, covered with a layer of carpet. The bin is lined with carpet on the outside. I've ordered a digital thermometer from HK to monitor the biomass heat (if there is any). Any suggestions on improvements? Other than buying a proper heater . . .

[frederickjh]

Hi Julia!

I know that this thread is old but I was wondering how the biomass heating of the slump worked out for you. I am guessing that it at least helped to stabilize the temperatures in the sump.

Greetings,

Frederick

[Bluegill]

If your fish are the engine of your system....why wouldnt you keep them in an environment that is favorable to them....THEY MAKE IT WORK.
Aq requires some finites....
Keep your fish in a controlled environment unless you live in a favorable climate.
BG

[Julia]

Hi Julia!

I know that this thread is old but I was wondering how the biomass heating of the slump worked out for you. I am guessing that it at least helped to stabilize the temperatures in the sump.

Greetings,

Frederick

Hi Frederick,

Yes, you guessed right - the biomass layer wasn't thick enough (about 10 inches) to hold the heat well enough to get the decomposing and heating going in a big way, over the cold winter months, but it was terrific insulation, and did stabilize the temperature in the system. I'll have a look at the temperature readings over that time, and will get back to you, with something more concrete.

Regards,
Julia

[Bluegill]

Fredrick:
I apologize for my post. As I read it back to myself now....it sure sounds like I was preaching......
One of my New Years resolutions is to be less judgemental.......
You have a good idea using biomass....I'm an idiot.....
Sorry again.
Darryl
aka Bluegill

[Julia]

Hi Frederick,

Sorry to take so long with the details of my biomass setup, but it turned out trying to do charts of all the temps was just too complicated. The biomass itself stayed between 19-20 degree centigrade the whole time, but that temperature wasn't enough to affect the water temperature in the system. I couldn't get the temperature to go higher no matter what I did - added more manure, more comfrey, bit of water - I think because the sump is in the shade, it was just too cool to get a good reaction going. I think the Biomass idea would work, under the right conditions, but with a lot more mass than I had!

Have you had some success?

Julia

[Castaway]

Sorry to interrupt this thread, Hi Julia how are your Silver Perch going? Post an update sometime...

[Julia]

Hi Castaway,

The silvers are going fine, apart from a major slip up on my part a couple of months ago. Some of them have hit the plate, and were delicious - I was very surprised. We invited some friends and did the Spirit House deep fried standing up fish, with their special tamarind sauce - wonderful! But one day I forgot to put the pump back on after giving the fish their evening meal and one tank (about 15 fish) were just about at death's door in the morning (not a very strong aerator on that tank), so we cleaned and froze them all. That said, I have about 15 fish left, of various sizes, and am just about to contact a hatchery to get 50 jade perch to try this time. Is Ausyfish still the best bet?

My worm farms are going well and they're producing lots of black soldier fly larvae as well, so there's a fair bit of natural food going at the moment.

During the wet weeks, the plants didn't seem to be prospering, so I did a big revamp and pulled out all the old stuff, and various seedlings are on the way up. The wicking beds weren't all that happy either, with all the rain, but have been planted out recently again. So I hope there won't be too much more rain this wet season.

How are things with you? Did all that rain affect your system?
Julie

[SolTun]

Hi Frederick,

Sorry to take so long with the details of my biomass setup, but it turned out trying to do charts of all the temps was just too complicated. The biomass itself stayed between 19-20 degree centigrade the whole time, but that temperature wasn't enough to affect the water temperature in the system. I couldn't get the temperature to go higher no matter what I did - added more manure, more comfrey, bit of water - I think because the sump is in the shade, it was just too cool to get a good reaction going. I think the Biomass idea would work, under the right conditions, but with a lot more mass than I had!

Have you had some success?

Julia

Did you circulate to fast maybe?
Iff you steal(take away) to much heat, it stops/slows the compostproscess.

[Julia]

Hi SolTun,

You're quite right there, I hadn't thought of it that way. The big cast iron bath tub was just too big and cold and would probably have never let the compost heat up properly. I guess biomass heaters work best with piping running through them?

Do you have some experience with biomass heating?

Julia

[SolTun]

Hi SolTun,

You're quite right there, I hadn't thought of it that way. The big cast iron bath tub was just too big and cold and would probably have never let the compost heat up properly. I guess biomass heaters work best with piping running through them?

Do you have some experience with biomass heating?

Julia

Not any practical as off yet, playing with some ideas on the matter.
And have buildt a greywater system that reeleases/distribute x-tra heat to a in ground thermal loop colector.

[Castaway]

Hi Castaway,

The silvers are going fine, apart from a major slip up on my part a couple of months ago. Some of them have hit the plate, and were delicious - I was very surprised.
Hi Julia, Good to hear its all going well for you in Cooroy. Better get those Jades soon before the weather gets cooler. I got a new batch of 50 and they are eating like crazy, piling on the growth too. Hopefully all the rain is now finished and cooler good times for AP are ahead for us here in SE QLD as the plants start growing very well.

[Julia]

Hi Castaway,

Did you get your jade perch from Ausyfish? How did you go in all that rain?

Julia

[fishfood]

Hi Julia long time no see hows the wicking beds going

[Julia]

Hi Fishfood,

Good to hear from you - the wicking beds are working fine, but everything suffered after all that rain - not enough sun, etc etc. But I've replanted most of them now (six in all), and am finding that the plants are happier if I water them from the top, instead of through the pipe (like you said). We've put bird netting over the top (stretched over black pipe), so have beaten the brush turkeys and bandicoots, which were a real nuisance in the dirt garden. So thanks for all your help with that.

Saw Frank's film of you having a look around Murray's system - impressive, eh. Your set up is looking good these days - who looked after it when you were gone?

How was your trip to Queensland?

Julia

[fishfood]

Thanks yes everythings going well the system looks after its self

[Castaway]

Hi Castaway,

Did you get your jade perch from Ausyfish? How did you go in all that rain?
I ended up getting 50 Jades from SE Fish Hatchery as Ausy Fish don't answer their phone. The Jades were small but have grown heaps in a few weeks. Only lost one the next day (stress perhaps) but the rest are all good. Give Matt Johnson a call 07 5546 4462 or look at their website. (http://www.seqfish.com.au)

Ausyfish need to smarten their website and implement some sort of crazy new-fangled 21 Century idea like the ability to "Order Online!" Its a crazy idea, but it just may catch on....:tongue:

[Julia]

Thanks for that information, Castaway - didn't see your reply until tonight. I sent an order to Ausyfish today via email, so will see what happens. I was surprised that they don't have a credit card facility or use PayPal. Will check out Matt Johnson's website just in case.

Cheers,
Julia

[dirtyhabanero]

Frederickjh,

I was just about to start a new thread but then I found this one :). I've been gathering information about biomass heating and am going to give it a go, reasons outlined below.

The rotating drum (http://mb-soft.com/public3/globalzl.html) looks like the ideal setup, however I will most likely just do a four-stakes-in-the-ground setup with black plastic over the heap. The only adjustment I think important is to raise the heap off the ground to increase air flow. I think one of the links you posted mentions the importance of air flow to the speed of decomposition - among other things. So, I will attempt to do this by placing two half rotted logs at the base of the heap, parallel to each other, place some coarse mesh (or other material) on this so that fine particles will fall through as they decompose, finally put the coiled poly hose on top of the mesh and then build the heap on top of this. Not sure if it will work.

I'm only a novice gardener but the goal is to heat my ~2000L AP system to 18oC or above and to cater for 10 x 1yo jades. I understand that this fish will do ok in my climate, but I fear the winter will slow down their feeding - which is what happened last year. I did read about composting here (http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030202/03010200.html) which was posted by another member of this forum and is was very useful, you may have read it already.

I also wanted to post this data I collected for air and water temps. Is this the type of relationship one you would expect between air and water temps?
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k622/dirtyhabanero/air-water-temp-24hr.jpg
Date: 22-04-2011
Blue line - water temp
Green line - air temp

Salvador

[Günter]

Hi Frederick, and others from cold countries,

I got an email from a friend in Germany who is considering AP, however, is not sure about long periods of frost. Two months with minus 15 Celsius maybe. That does not happen too often but the last few winters were really cold. Weeks with daytime minus 9 and nighttime minus 15, no sunshine.

Would anybody know if there are people running AP somewhere in areas with similar conditions, or if it would be possible at all without spending a fortune on heating oil?

Thanks
Günter

[jono81]

For those of you who run compost/biomass heaters, what type of piping do you use and where do you buy it?

Just callled a local supplier of 32mm polypipe and he said the stuff is only rated to 40 degreess celcius

[fishfood]

For those of you who run compost/biomass heaters, what type of piping do you use and where do you buy it?

Just callled a local supplier of 32mm polypipe and he said the stuff is only rated to 40 degreess celcius

Yes maybee but with water running throught it wont get near that

[dirtyhabanero]

I take it that temperature rating means operation above specified temp will result in break down of the product, poly pipe?

I'll be happy if I can get my biomass heater to get to 40oC! I've posted some pics here http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k622/dirtyhabanero/Biomass%20Heater/ if anyone wants to look at how I went about it. Still haven't cycled it through the AP system yet as the heap is only 1 week old; not generating any heat. If only I could find some cow manure...

[jono81]

Sorry not sure exactly what the supplier reckons would happen to the pipe if the water exceeded 40 degrees - the guy seemed like he couldn't get off the phone quick enough so I didn't throw any more questions at him.

But you guys have a point about water from compost unlikely to ever get that hot.

I'm planning to coil polypipe in one of those big round green (600 litre?) bins you can buy from bunnings for around $60 I think.

dirtyhabanero have you tried calling the local horse stables in your area? I've found a few near me which are happy with me picking up their horse manure by the trailer load for free. They usually have to pay someone to take it away anyhow.

[trout]

If only I could find some cow manure...

Hi dirtyhabanero

You don't need any manure at all to start a compost heap working.
I would actually suspect having manure in the heap will cause it to start
quicker but also finish quicker.

The most important things about compost heaps are:


The carbon/nitrogen ratio needs to be 25-30
Heap size should be one cubic metre.
Complete aeration of the heap should occur twice weakly
all material going into the heap should be shredded
moisture needs to be carefully controlled.


Science of the heap.
There are two types of organisms that operate in a compost heap.


20-40 celsius mesophilic organisms
40-60 celsius thermophilic organisms


This is the important bit.

In a compost heap, the centre will be thermophilic and will have a
mesophilic zone around it, and as you go towards the edge of the heap
the temperature will become ambient.
Therefore your pipework needs to be near the centre.

As the thermophilic organisms in the centre consume the material you need
to shift mesophilic material to the centre otherwise the heap will slow down
and die.

The rotating drum would be the better option, but to get the size you need
to produce the heat it needs to be big.
That size needs to be motorized otherwise you won't be able to turn it.

I got all this information and learnt composting from a book written
by the CSIRO.

Here are two batches that I did, as you can see you can get quite high
temperatures for upto a month

cheers Lou

[dirtyhabanero]

Lou, the data you posted is astonishing (to me atleast). Apart from the high temps that you were able to obtain, I noticed that the second batch (01/01/09-29/01/09) had less temp. fluctuation than the first. Do you have any insight on this?

Also,



Complete aeration of the heap should occur twice weakly
all material going into the heap should be shredded

as I understand, aeration can be provided to the heap if there is a good mix of fine/coarse particulates in the compost heap. Therefore, shredding material may prevent this from occurring?

[trout]

I noticed that the second batch (01/01/09-29/01/09) had less temp. fluctuation than the first. Do you have any insight on this?


A lot of things can cause these differences.


initial size of heap
components that went into the heap c/n ratio
ambient temperatures
dampness of heap.


The heap from 1/1/09 was done in very hot weather (day and night)
the other heap was done in November hence cooler weather and it
rained heavily



as I understand, aeration can be provided to the heap if there is a good mix of fine/coarse particulates in the compost heap. Therefore, shredding material may prevent this from occurring?

This depends a lot on what you're after.
Having a mix of fine and coarse allows good aeration but poor insulation
hence a lot of heat is lost to the environment.
If you want high heat you need to limit heat loss so you can't have air
going through the heap too easily. You need a big mesophilic zone to
act as insulation. But to work, the heap needs air so you must break it down
every three days and FLUFF the material and repack it.
This is the berkeley method of composting, by obtaining such high temps
means you kill weeds and other bad bacteria, hence giving good compost.

cheers Lou