NO2 and NO3 off the charts

[bigdaddy]

Here we go folks,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLr3Z...layer_embedded

Taken from Jon's first post on his tilapia arrive thread.

This may help.

Hi Jon,

I'm also curious as to why your nitrates are up so high, I suspect your system has not cycled yet, and would expect your system to have high nitrites at this stage but I don't know why such a high nitrate reading.

Maybe others can answer that for us.

What's your ammonia reading and tank temps? It just helps form a bit more of a picture for us as pH, ammonia, and fish tank temps have an effect on each other in regards to toxity to your fish.

The other thing I would suggest is to take a set of readings of your pH,nitrites ammonia,nitrates and fish tank temp today and post and see if there is any difference.

You could also look at my water testing thread in the general aquaponics discussion section, for when I cycled my trout system, I had high nitrites for quite a while and was concerned. It was a little different to your situation, I had no nitrates though, but a read of that may help.

Regardless I'd do what the otheres are suggesting They helped me when I first cycled.

Cheers.

[trout]

Sure, it's a no-brainer that the plants will grow better in a lower pH... and that the current pH is probably locking out trace element uptake...



. the nitrification could cause such a rapid drop... that it could well shut down the nitrification... kind of self-defeating in a "just cycled", or almost cycled system...

Some Maxicrop, and a bit of chelated iron should help his plants in the mean time...


The thing to do... is just get the system into balance... with the least number of further inputs... and that includes pH... at the moment...

Hi Rupe

I don't follow how adding Maxicrop, and a bit of chelated iron will help
the plants if the ph is high.
Won't those nutrients also be locked out.
I would suggest the system has enough nutrient already.

Will the ph drop, yes= remedy add lime , it's too easy.

Will it shut down the bacteria, I don't know, but even if it does add some
lime and you fire them up again .

As you know I cycled my system with HIGH dose urea and my nitrite/nitrate
levels were absolutely through the roof.
Yet the plant growth was amazing.
I have never been able to replicate such growth since.

Obviously, if I was in Jon's shoes I would:
1/ remove the goldfish
2/adjust ph to about 7 (by adding acid or lime)

If Jon does nothing

1/ goldfish may/will die
2/ nitrification will drop ph and will need to add lime anyway
3/ will have missed out on 2-3 weeks of plant growth.


cheers Lou

[Jon Ezrine]

Thank you so much guys for all the help.

Here is more background:

Relatively new system. Running for about 4 months.
400 gallons with 3 large fill/drain beds
20 or so goldfish (to cycle the system)

I have not been getting any readings on ammonia or NO2 NO3 so I added pure ammonia last week.

I have stopped feeding the fish, but have not removed because lazy and expendable.

I have added some additional fresh water.

My water is well water and I tested pH to be about 6.0

Today, the pH registered at 7.8
The nitrite level was super high (purple color from yesterday)
Looks like the nitrate level was a little lower than yesterday.

Any new thoughts?

[Jon Ezrine]

I didn't see the second page of responses until after my last post.

The video shows my system,and basically I have two separate systems on each side. The left side, that I am showing in the video has tilapia and is doing well. The right side, where the goldfish are living is the one that I am having the Nitrate problem.

The temperature is warmer on the tilapia side (74F) because I have aquarium heaters. On the goldfish side it is about (65F).

Hope this helps.

[bigdaddy]

Hi Jon,

I would not be adding any ammonia ATM, at least until your readings settle down, just let your goldies do their thing.

For the bacteria to work better about 15C upwards is the temp I found works good.

Nil showing or a trace of ammonia is OK, very basically speaking, It changes from an ammonia reading, to a nitrites reading, then a nitrates reading, and feeds the plants. Hopefully your nitrites will come down soon, and just watch your nitrates and see if they come down tomorrow, if they do, then it looks like you are heading in the right direction. A lot of people advise to salt your system to 1 part per thousand for 1500 litres roughly that will be 1.5 kgs of pure salt (no additives) to help your fish with the nitrites. It might also pay to get another nitrate test kit, just to confirm this one is accurate for your use. You will use them up eventually if this one is OK.The other way you can do it, which I have done..Is, To ask to come around one of your fellow aquaponic guys house take your test kit with you and compare kits, if you can of course.

I'd still do as the others suggest as well.

Cheers.

[RupertofOZ]

So, I take it that the youtube video is the system that's performing OK...

And that it's another NEW system that is causing problems....

What are the specs for the NEw system... the one with the gold fish???

The high nitrates are (I'm certain).. from an initial high dosing... which I suspect resulted in an ammonia level of about 8+...

When the nitrite converts... this will increase further... but might not necessarily show...

As the plants will probably just go "bloom"!! ... they aren't doing so at the moment... because the previous high ammonia was probably holding them back...


P.S.... just spotted the other posts... ah ha... pure ammonia... knew it.... you're lucky the goldies are still alive... but after the ammonia and nitrite spikes,, they're probably damaged anyway... I'd still salt to try and save them... if you're not worried about them... then they might survive....

The benefit of Seasol/Maxicrop... is that they contain "naturally" chelated minerals,... that can be taken up regardless of pH... same for chelated iron...

They may not be necessary... as the system will no doubt cycle very shortly...

[Jon Ezrine]

Hey thanks guys.

This system is a mirror image of the one in the video. Just newer.

I dosed the Ammonia when I didn't see any activity in the Ammonia, Nitrites or Nitrates by the goldfish, but I am assuming that the buildup of Nitrates all of a sudden must indicate the it bacteria is doing its thing.

I won't be adding any more ammonia.

I am interested in seeing if the goldfish survive. They have been with me for a year an half and have made it through all kinds of experiments, so they seem to be immortal.

I am assuming things will stabilize soon.

Jon

[davidl]

Today, the pH registered at 7.8
The nitrite level was super high (purple color from yesterday)
Looks like the nitrate level was a little lower than yesterday.

Any new thoughts?

Looks like things are headed back to a good condition, stop adding stuff, and only give the goldfish a small feed every 2-3 days until the water chemistry comes good. In a large system, with only 20 small goldfish, once things have cycled, the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels will likely read as zero or practically so, but the plants will be healthy still. Seeing as the pH is between 6.0 and 8.0 you don't need to change it, so leave that alone now. The nitrites will eventually be converted to nitrates, and the plants are now taking up the nitrates. You may see a surge in plant growth now.

I have not been getting any readings on ammonia or NO2 NO3 so I added pure ammonia last week.

Don't do that again, 20 small goldfish in a large system probably produced such a small and short ammonia spike that it went unnoticed. Now you're dealing with a massive dose that's making its way through the nitrogen cycle. Just make sure your system is getting plenty of oxygen, like the one in the video is getting, and keep the pH between 6.0 and 8.0.

I have added some additional fresh water.
My water is well water and I tested pH to be about 6.0

Do not use citric acid like lemon or lime juice to lower your pH, it will kill your bacteria, just change some water instead. If you don't want to use so much water, go to your local pool chemical supply shop and buy some Hydrochloric acid, it's cheap and strong. 1 ounce in your system should change the pH by the recommended 0.1 maximum per day. But like I said your pH is now in an acceptable 6-8 range so you don't need to mess with it.

[bigdaddy]

The high nitrates are (I'm certain).. from an initial high dosing... which I suspect resulted in an ammonia level of about 8+...

When the nitrite converts... this will increase further... but might not necessarily show...

As the plants will probably just go "bloom"!! ... they aren't doing so at the moment... because the previous high ammonia was probably holding them back...

That makes sense....... I can follow that.... Yes Jon, following this theory through lots of ammonia = lots of nitrites = lots of nitrates = lots of plants blooming.

It looks like patience is the key here, maybe do a water change as suggested, salt your water (but I would isolate your fish tanks/s for a while dissolve the correct amount of natural salt and completely and thoroughly mix into fish tank as not to cause "glugs" "glugs" of salt are detrimental to your plants...I know.) then open up your fish tanks to your grow beds etc.
Then wait, watching your fish, testing everyday. If your fish look good ..all is well. You should see your water results balance out in a week or 2. A bit of Maxicrop won't hurt either just to boost your plants.

Log daily your results on here if you want, we'd be interested to see how things turn out for you.

Cheers.

[davidl]

A bit of Maxicrop won't hurt either just to boost your plants.

In this case at this time, I'm very against the addition of plant nutrients. There is plenty in the water already, and the plants have only just started to be able to take advantage of them due to the pH and ammonia levels coming down. The plants are not sick, just haven't been growing as much as the others.

The problem arose by the addition of stuff besides fish food to the water. Apart from the nitrites, his system is within tolerable limits so that it will correct itself. As the best way to bring nitrites down is patience, and the expendable fish are not dying, this is an ideal time to learn patience.