Commercial Farm Yields - Why does it make sense??

[Damon Polta]

i'd be one of the last people to call for complete political correctness... but there has been a problem with cross forum chatter where people take simple slightly heated discussions and twist them into something that they aren't.

but you're right, the only comparison in the taste catagory to tilapia is bass here in the states... it's hard to find a decently priced clean tasting fish... lake perch, walleye and catfish all have a distinct taste... to find a fish that will taste differently depending on how it's cooked can be an expensive meal, even when cooked at home... now tilapia might bit drive as high of a price per pound as the smallmouth or striped bass do... but as it's been stated, the tolerance of water conditions makes it easier to raise tilapia... in most cases cheeper too... the only problem i could see with the tilapia in the northern states is having to heat the water... where im at the temperature in the summer is above good enoughfor them tilapia... but in the winter... good luck buddy... that's why i think taking the financial hit for better water quality and raising lake perch would be a better fit up here... their tolerance for water temperature is close to insane... lake erie is the shallowest of the great lakes... in the winter the water is below freezing (most years) and in the summer it has been recorded to get up around the high 70's... and the best part about the lake perch is their appetite during the winter months is high enough to keep the ice fishermen busy. actually since the lake has failed to freeze the last few years the ice fishing industry (charter fishing trips and the associated hotel room stays) has been punished...

since most leafy greens do well in the lower temp's around 55-60 degrees F, heating would be lower for the perch raisers due to the fact that the perch will thrive at that water temp.

now take all of the perch's tolerances and factor in it's demand price... and you have a fish species that would do better on the market than tilapia could ever dream of doing up here... the only problem is once you start to get away from the great lakes region, farm raising this species becomes illegal due to the AG laws...

this is where the local markets and demographics have a big role to play.i pay an arm and a leg for perch for fish fries... and i live 20 minutes from the lake they're taken from... shipping the fillets or even the whole fish 200-300 miles might stnd to be worth the effort. and since where im at is a tourist driven industry, when people come to the lake they want to eat 2 things... walleye and perch. a cheep basket of perch with 5-6 miniscule deep fried fillets goes for around $15... go only knows what the restaurant is paying for them, and chances are, they were frozen... being able to supply fresh fish to upper scale restaurants would demand a higher price.

lol, really in a perfect world i'd like to raise walleye in a system... their market price is astronomical... but i'd have to raise the perch to feed to the walleye... lol... too messy.

[Murray]

On Tilapia, because China has flooded the market with it in the US it now has the image of being rubbish poor mans food. I saw cleaned whole Tilapia (from China) in the supermarket freezer for 2.50 a lb One chef we talked with will not serve it in his restaurant because of that image and because of where it comes from.
The girls at Green Acres eat their own grown Tilapia and it is very good. But they don't even try to sell it for all of the above reasons.
I believe that image could, in part be turned around with some good marketing.

The marketing of AP grown food needs to be firmly defined. It needs to be understood that AP is not Aquaculture and it is not Hydroponics. It is a new discipline all its own with unique amazing qualities that neither of it's family line possesses. It is an ECO system., and that is what excites the consumers and the Chefs. The possibilities are amazing. Clean green chemical free food.
Those that say, "it is only Aquaculture with some Hydro tacked on"... or... " it is only Hydro with some fish thrown in" totally miss the potential and the inherent beauty of AP.

For the US, someone needs to invest the money and bring in some Jade Perch brood stock and get that going there. They would make a killing. The temps required are same as for Tilapia, requires better water quality, but that will not be a problem for a well run AP farm. The USA is in dire need for a decent fish to grow and market.

[tpilk]

I didn't realize China had been importing Tilapia. I've seen some of the conditions Asian Tilapia are raised in and I'm a little shocked FDA would even allow it. Previously they came in from Central America, most from Costa Rica.

Not sure how the Aussie Perch varieties would fare - much of the US is subject to greater temperature swings, though water quality wouldn't be a problem. As to food quality, the Crappie and Sunfish varieties in the US are excellent from the food quality/taste side, but Sunfish (Bluegill) take forever to grow and Crappie don't like pellets. Maybe the Perch are a solution.

Asian imports make the outlook even more discouraging. At least AP is a fun and rewarding hobby.

[RupertofOZ]

Don't get me wrong... I understand the value of Tilapia.. as a staple fish for much of the worlds population... and their obvious appeal in terms of aquaponics.. and even aquaculture... particularly with the broad range of water conditions that they have....

But I do sometimes wonder if those very tolerances are perhaps one of the factors that has encouraged the recent surge in aquaponics farms.... and/or actually make them viable... not so much from the point of view of price return... but just their sheer forgivingness and managability...

Regardless of my opinions regarding Tilapia here in Australia... it's simply a fact that there is no real chance of any imminent approval for them as an aquaculture stock... and probably not any real viability in terms of a market, or profitabiliy...

Our native fish stocks have a good price point return though.... but that's offset by the need for much higher levels of filtration and aeration to stock anywhere the densities that many Tilapia systems can be...

And that means a much higher Capex expenditure, monitoring, and knowledge of fish keeping.... that I think just does equate to the current US style aquaponics farms....

Nor is there the population base... and plethora of "farmers markets"... although they are growing in number... as is the whole concept of "locally grown"...

Again though, and I do know this from my hydroponics experience, which included direct marketing.... there is just only so much that a 1 or 2 person operation can physically do...

After that point... the whole numbers, and price returns... change.. considerably....

[Murray]

there is just only so much that a 1 or 2 person operation can physically do...

That is the struggle of every small business Rup. Finding the best way to use the 12 or 14 hours a day a micro business person/couple put in. Not only does one have to actually do the work, but all the other admin garbage put on us by Gov. BAS returns, and so on.

[llewelynj]

red tape is the downfall of business in modern world

[Murray]

red tape is the downfall of business in modern world

Yes, if they would just leave us alone......Micro businesses should be exempt from GST and a whole heap of other stuff put on by a mindless public service. Micro business employ themselves, no burden on Gov and most employ one or two others. Don't want any Gov handouts, just not to be interfered with an left get on with earning a living.

[joeyd]

Hi

According to the ATO a micro business turning over less than $75,000.00 per year is not required to be registered for GST in Australia.

http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/con...724.htm&page=5

Cheers

Joey

[silver_acid]

you can produce 5 to 10 times the amount of food with horticulture on the same amount of land you grow with soil, I know that for a fact. you can grow much closer together in hydro and the nutes do not have to be broke down in the soil, in hydro the nutes are taken in by the plant much faster and in less in about an 1/8 of what you have to use in soil.

[Yabbies4me]

you can produce 5 to 10 times the amount of food with horticulture on the same amount of land you grow with soil, I know that for a fact. you can grow much closer together in hydro and the nutes do not have to be broke down in the soil, in hydro the nutes are taken in by the plant much faster and in less in about an 1/8 of what you have to use in soil.

I assume you meant to say "hydroponics" where you've said "horticulture"... Horticulture is to to with the cultivation and maintenance of plants in any way, shape, or form, including hydroponics.

...and I wouldn't mind seeing some reference to them there "facts" you speak of, or details of an actual hydroponic system producing 5-10 times the amount of produce of a soil garden the same size... it would be very interesting indeed, especially 10x the amount... I would love to see the set-up and what you/they are growing.

Cheers, Yabbies.